<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: IVF and Cloning Part 2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.frantonios.org.au/2010/07/23/ivf-and-cloning-part-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.frantonios.org.au/2010/07/23/ivf-and-cloning-part-2/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 09:52:13 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://www.frantonios.org.au/2010/07/23/ivf-and-cloning-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-735</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2011 06:45:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frantonios.org.au/?p=246#comment-735</guid>
		<description>&quot;At the end of the day, God is the sole life giver, if he has no intentions for cloning to be explored then it wouldn’t matter how far this Dr Zavos went in his research, it wouldn’t matter how many years he spent and how much money he put into it, all his time will be spent in vain. If God does not decide to give the clone in the petri dish the breath of life and give it a spirit then the science will always and forever be unsuccessful. That’s the bottom line.&quot;

I was just thinking the same thing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;At the end of the day, God is the sole life giver, if he has no intentions for cloning to be explored then it wouldn’t matter how far this Dr Zavos went in his research, it wouldn’t matter how many years he spent and how much money he put into it, all his time will be spent in vain. If God does not decide to give the clone in the petri dish the breath of life and give it a spirit then the science will always and forever be unsuccessful. That’s the bottom line.&#8221;</p>
<p>I was just thinking the same thing!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: سوق الخفجي المبوبة</title>
		<link>http://www.frantonios.org.au/2010/07/23/ivf-and-cloning-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-601</link>
		<dc:creator>سوق الخفجي المبوبة</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Feb 2011 23:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frantonios.org.au/?p=246#comment-601</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;تعتبر مدينة الخفجي مدينة ساحليه فهي تقع على الخليج العربي وتخللها شواطئ منبسطه. اما بالنسبة لباقي المحافظه فارض الخفجي  أرض سهلة منبسطة تنخفض في بعض الأماكن دون مستوى البحر كما تكثر الكثبان الرملية على السواحل. تمتاز الخفجي بانتشار المناطق الرعوية وا...&lt;/strong&gt;

VeryGood site,Thank you verymuch for you effort in writing the posts....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>تعتبر مدينة الخفجي مدينة ساحليه فهي تقع على الخليج العربي وتخللها شواطئ منبسطه. اما بالنسبة لباقي المحافظه فارض الخفجي  أرض سهلة منبسطة تنخفض في بعض الأماكن دون مستوى البحر كما تكثر الكثبان الرملية على السواحل. تمتاز الخفجي بانتشار المناطق الرعوية وا&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>VeryGood site,Thank you verymuch for you effort in writing the posts&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.frantonios.org.au/2010/07/23/ivf-and-cloning-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-544</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jul 2010 09:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.frantonios.org.au/?p=246#comment-544</guid>
		<description>The question is asked as to whether an individuals spirit is linked to his genes or his brain. If linked to his genes, then identical twins will have the same spirit and be subject to the same judgements. We know that not to be the case. Identical twins may be genetiaclly the same, however they are two separate people who are judged on their own actions and their own thoughts, therefore it can only be possible that a persons spirit is linked to his own brain. The same can then be said about genetically identical clones.

The scenario of the mother with a dead daughter is a common one brought up in the cloning debates. However, even if her daughter is cloned, there is no guarantee that the product will be identical to her daughter in every way because the clone will have its own spirit.
I saw a story once of a woman who cloned her cat who had died. To her surprise, the cloned cat was of different fur colour and of different temperament and personality to the original, even though it was genetically identical. So why can&#039;t the same be said about the cloned daughter?
Genetically identical or not, she would not be &#039;bringing her back to life&#039;, neither will she necessarily look and act the same or have the same talents because she would have a different distinct spirit. The spirit of the daughter will not re-enter the clone!

When you think about it, Eve must have been a genetic clone of Adam since she was formed out of Adam&#039;s rib. Although she was not only a separate person who was reprimanded separately for her actions in the garden, she was a female while her original source from which she was formed was a male. So even though a clone may be genetically identical to its original source, it will not be the same person, neither will it necessarily look or act the same. 

At the end of the day, God is the sole life giver, if he has no intentions for cloning to be explored then it wouldn&#039;t matter how far this Dr Zavos went in his research, it wouldn&#039;t matter how many years he spent and how much money he put into it, all his time will be spent in vain. If God does not decide to give the clone in the petri dish the breath of life and give it a spirit then the science will always and forever be unsuccessful. That&#039;s the bottom line.

And do we have so litte faith in human nature to think these fantasiful scenarios would ever be explored if cloning ever became possible?

I guess what we have to do is put ourselves in the shoes of people that this science would benefit.

If you had an ill child who has had numerous failed organ transplants would you not want to do all you could to help him? If the possibility of cloning him in order to take the clones organs is possible (as long as doing so does not kill the clone and is to take an organ like a kidney or lung or liver portion after which the clone could survive) wouldn&#039;t you want to explore that?

If you are a childless couple who could also benefit would you not want to try cloning if other attempts through IVF had been unsuccessful? The clone should be given the legal status of a child, it will have its own spirit not attached to its genes. What is the issue with being formed from the genetic material of one person? Genetically, Jesus would have been identical to his Virgin mother, and yet we call him her son, not her brother. 

One other thing I want to mention that was written in the previous blog regarding a couple using sperm or ova from an outside individual being regarded as adultery, I know this is the position of the Church and I can understand why; since the child is from outside the marriage. But isn&#039;t adultery in the act not the product? If a child is born outside of wedlock we do not condemn the child as a bastard child and he is still accepted into the Church. It is the act that is condemned and must be repented of. 

But what if the act does not actually occur and the child who may genetically be of different mother or father from outside the marriage is born inside the marriage from the wedded mother through IVF? Why is that considered adultery?

Abraham conceived Ismael through Hagar with his wife Sarah&#039;s permission. When God reprimanded him there was no talk of adultery, only that he had not trusted in God that he would provide him with an heir in good time.
Is that not the same thing? If a couple wants a child but one is sterile or barren as was Abraham&#039;s wife Sarah, is it then adultery if they both agree and give each other permission to use somebody else from outside their marriage so they could both have a child, as Sarah gave her husband permission to conceive an heir through Hagar? Food for thought I guess...and I am sure if any of us wanted children but couldn&#039;t have them we would want to explore using an outside sperm or egg donor...


anyway....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question is asked as to whether an individuals spirit is linked to his genes or his brain. If linked to his genes, then identical twins will have the same spirit and be subject to the same judgements. We know that not to be the case. Identical twins may be genetiaclly the same, however they are two separate people who are judged on their own actions and their own thoughts, therefore it can only be possible that a persons spirit is linked to his own brain. The same can then be said about genetically identical clones.</p>
<p>The scenario of the mother with a dead daughter is a common one brought up in the cloning debates. However, even if her daughter is cloned, there is no guarantee that the product will be identical to her daughter in every way because the clone will have its own spirit.<br />
I saw a story once of a woman who cloned her cat who had died. To her surprise, the cloned cat was of different fur colour and of different temperament and personality to the original, even though it was genetically identical. So why can&#8217;t the same be said about the cloned daughter?<br />
Genetically identical or not, she would not be &#8216;bringing her back to life&#8217;, neither will she necessarily look and act the same or have the same talents because she would have a different distinct spirit. The spirit of the daughter will not re-enter the clone!</p>
<p>When you think about it, Eve must have been a genetic clone of Adam since she was formed out of Adam&#8217;s rib. Although she was not only a separate person who was reprimanded separately for her actions in the garden, she was a female while her original source from which she was formed was a male. So even though a clone may be genetically identical to its original source, it will not be the same person, neither will it necessarily look or act the same. </p>
<p>At the end of the day, God is the sole life giver, if he has no intentions for cloning to be explored then it wouldn&#8217;t matter how far this Dr Zavos went in his research, it wouldn&#8217;t matter how many years he spent and how much money he put into it, all his time will be spent in vain. If God does not decide to give the clone in the petri dish the breath of life and give it a spirit then the science will always and forever be unsuccessful. That&#8217;s the bottom line.</p>
<p>And do we have so litte faith in human nature to think these fantasiful scenarios would ever be explored if cloning ever became possible?</p>
<p>I guess what we have to do is put ourselves in the shoes of people that this science would benefit.</p>
<p>If you had an ill child who has had numerous failed organ transplants would you not want to do all you could to help him? If the possibility of cloning him in order to take the clones organs is possible (as long as doing so does not kill the clone and is to take an organ like a kidney or lung or liver portion after which the clone could survive) wouldn&#8217;t you want to explore that?</p>
<p>If you are a childless couple who could also benefit would you not want to try cloning if other attempts through IVF had been unsuccessful? The clone should be given the legal status of a child, it will have its own spirit not attached to its genes. What is the issue with being formed from the genetic material of one person? Genetically, Jesus would have been identical to his Virgin mother, and yet we call him her son, not her brother. </p>
<p>One other thing I want to mention that was written in the previous blog regarding a couple using sperm or ova from an outside individual being regarded as adultery, I know this is the position of the Church and I can understand why; since the child is from outside the marriage. But isn&#8217;t adultery in the act not the product? If a child is born outside of wedlock we do not condemn the child as a bastard child and he is still accepted into the Church. It is the act that is condemned and must be repented of. </p>
<p>But what if the act does not actually occur and the child who may genetically be of different mother or father from outside the marriage is born inside the marriage from the wedded mother through IVF? Why is that considered adultery?</p>
<p>Abraham conceived Ismael through Hagar with his wife Sarah&#8217;s permission. When God reprimanded him there was no talk of adultery, only that he had not trusted in God that he would provide him with an heir in good time.<br />
Is that not the same thing? If a couple wants a child but one is sterile or barren as was Abraham&#8217;s wife Sarah, is it then adultery if they both agree and give each other permission to use somebody else from outside their marriage so they could both have a child, as Sarah gave her husband permission to conceive an heir through Hagar? Food for thought I guess&#8230;and I am sure if any of us wanted children but couldn&#8217;t have them we would want to explore using an outside sperm or egg donor&#8230;</p>
<p>anyway&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

