It’s not an ethnicity thing, it’s a faith thing!

As Orthodox Christians we should not be trivialising the faith and saying we and all other Christians are alike and the same.

God does not sit in heaven and play musical chairs, he does not and can not be present on the Eucharistic Table of three Churches which are separated by faith. There is only one truth and only one faith; the Orthodox Faith. To say that God is present in all Churches and in their Eucharists is to say that God is plural.

Anyway….

I really like this post, after reading it i felt attuned to your points and related to them greatly.

In the service, I have also heard these comments and have felt the same ‘twinge of discomfort’. I feel frightened when I hear words like ‘east’ and ‘west’ churches in particular. They send out a message of division not only geographically (if it were only that) but also division of churches.

When someone speaks of ‘loyalty’ for their church, what does it mean? Does that mean they are disloyal to another Coptic church? or is it that their allegiances lie with their ‘preferred’ church?

The Lord Jesus Christ never intended loyalties to a church or to a priest or to a leader but to Him only. (obviously to get to him is through the sacraments of the church, which the priests and the church have their roles and parts). But i cant help but wonder and ask myself of all people…am I of Paul? or am I of Apollos? (1 Corinthians 3)

There is no such thing as the ‘Ecumenical Church’, but rather the Catholic Church.

There are three groups which claim to be the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church; being the Orientals, the Easterners and the Latins.
As far as I’m concerned, and as far as any of us should be concerned, the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church IS the Oriental Church and no other. The Oriental Church IS the Catholic Church, or more accurately, what remains of the Catholic Church.

We can start talking about ecumenism again, and our Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters as sharing our faith and claim to the One Church, however until any sort of full Eucharistic communion is achieved (if ever), we cannot see this as the case.
There is only One Catholic Church, there is only One Apostolic Church, and the Oriental Orthodox Church IS IT. Any other Church is outside of that.

We may share the same roots as other Churches, but we no longer share the same inheritance as we once did. Christ is not divided, he cannot be present on the Eucharistic Table of the Orientals, the Easterners and the Latins. There is only one valid sacrament.

That is why this talk of ‘all Christians are the same’ disturbs me; when holding this view we are, above everything else, disrespecting the Eucharist, which is the most precious sacrament we have, and we are disrespecting the True Church which is the only valid administrator of this Eucharist.

As far as your queries regarding deification go, I too have always had trouble understanding this concept.
From what I understand, and don’t take my word for it; deification is about the call for man to be holy such that we experience fellowship with God and ‘partake in the energies and operations of God’ in the world.
The phrase ‘partake in the energies of God’ has always troubled me, but from what I understand, it means that we partake with God in his works in the world, through which we become holy and become deified.

The Coptic Church does not deny this, and shares implicitly in this view.

What the Coptic Church (along with the Eastern Church) denies and refutes is the ill-conceived understanding of this concept, held by the likes of Matthew the Poor, Max Michel and others, who believe that not only does man partake in the energies of God but also the essence of God, such that men become gods.

Matthew the Poor and Max Michel quote Athanasius who says in his book ‘On the Incarnation of the Word’ that ‘God became human so human would become gods’.
What they fail to understand is that Athanasius meant (I think) that man may become holy as God is Holy, and that this is only possible through Christ who is God incarnate.
The essence of God is transcendent and untouchable, and to say that man partakes in the essence of God is heresy in its most evil form (interesting to note, the Latin Church believes that man will ‘behold the essence of God’ after death).
This is what is refuted, not the concept of deification. Although the Coptic Church has no explicit dogma on the belief (I think).

Those are my thoughts, for what they’re worth…

N

Just wanted to clarify- when I said Ecunemical Church- I meant the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. I have trouble defining that- I usually think of it personally as the Orthodox Church, though the Eastern Orthodox Church’s understanding of “deification” concerns me somewhat as someone who has really no understanding of patristics. I get conflicting views from our clergy re: this. At very least, all of us must agree that the Oriental Orthodox is apr tof this Ecunemical Church.

GBU

If all Churches will ultimately lead to the same end then it would not matter whether I’m an Orthodox Christian, a Roman Catholic Christian, a Protestant Christian, or any other Christian.
If all Churches will ultimately lead to the same end then cross-communion should be allowed, cross-marriages without baptism should be allowed, and cross-participation in all sacraments should be no problem.

The Church obviously does not see it this way. Salvation is only through valid sacraments.

If seeing my Church as being above all others makes me a bigot or makes me prejudiced then so be it, because I think it’s this communal-Christian thinking which will do the Christian faith a whole lot of damage.

N