Comments on: Criticism of the Criticism of my Criticism of Criticism http://www.frantonios.org.au/2008/10/15/criticism-of-the-criticism-of-my-criticism-of-criticism/ Just another WordPress weblog Tue, 07 Feb 2012 15:05:50 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Fr. Antonios Kaldas http://www.frantonios.org.au/2008/10/15/criticism-of-the-criticism-of-my-criticism-of-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-222 Fr. Antonios Kaldas Fri, 24 Oct 2008 00:11:42 +0000 http://www.stbishoy.org.au/modules/wordpress/2008/10/15/criticism-of-the-criticism-of-my-criticism-of-criticism/#comment-222 Thanks for all the responses. Re the question of the Psalm prayers that express hatred for one's enemies: I think hatred was created to be applied in one circumstance, and one circumstance only: evil. It is appropriate for a follower of God, who loves God passionately, to hate all that is the opposite of God with the same passion. We hate the sin that is in us with vehemence and do all we can to mercilessly stamp it out. My guess is that in the times before Christ, before the Covenant of Grace replaced the Covenant of the Law, the sin and the sinner were often one in the minds of people.I am pretty sure from reading the Old Testament that people then lived in a very different mindset. Imagine the mindset of people a hundred years ago before all our technology came along - they viewed life and the world in certain aspects in a very different way to our view today. I imagine something similar may have been the case with regard to evil in those days. This was the spiritual childhood of humanity where the seeds of the grace to come was sown, but for practical purposes, a sort of rough justice was essential to maintain the importance of good over evil. Thus were whole tribes wiped out by Joshua and the Israelites as they entered the Promised land. The message was: "if you choose evil, it will become a part of you, and you will have to accept the fate that awaits evil and those who practice it." Since the coming of Christ, and the opening up of a door to salvation, the message has become: "if you have chosen evil, repent, for here is a way out of evil and into the realm of love and grace." I find the best way to pray those types of Psalms is to apply the aggressive words to my own weakness and failings, or to the devil and his plans. No need to show mercy to either of those! Re: those who by nature are compelled to to want things done right: I know where you're coming from! And it's actually not a bad thing to want things done right, but that desire must be subjected to wisdom in practice. If it's not your responsibility, express your view to those responsible and then leave it to them. If it is your responsibility, then jolly well do something about it! If the person responsible isn't doing anything and you feel the matter is important enough, then check with others you respect if they agree with you (you might be wrong). If they do agree, then do what you can to lobby or influence the course of events, but always within the boundaries of respect, courtesy and love, and never for personal or selfish reasons. Does that answer the question? GBU Fr Ant Thanks for all the responses.

Re the question of the Psalm prayers that express hatred for one’s enemies:

I think hatred was created to be applied in one circumstance, and one circumstance only: evil. It is appropriate for a follower of God, who loves God passionately, to hate all that is the opposite of God with the same passion. We hate the sin that is in us with vehemence and do all we can to mercilessly stamp it out.

My guess is that in the times before Christ, before the Covenant of Grace replaced the Covenant of the Law, the sin and the sinner were often one in the minds of people.I am pretty sure from reading the Old Testament that people then lived in a very different mindset. Imagine the mindset of people a hundred years ago before all our technology came along – they viewed life and the world in certain aspects in a very different way to our view today. I imagine something similar may have been the case with regard to evil in those days. This was the spiritual childhood of humanity where the seeds of the grace to come was sown, but for practical purposes, a sort of rough justice was essential to maintain the importance of good over evil. Thus were whole tribes wiped out by Joshua and the Israelites as they entered the Promised land. The message was: “if you choose evil, it will become a part of you, and you will have to accept the fate that awaits evil and those who practice it.”

Since the coming of Christ, and the opening up of a door to salvation, the message has become: “if you have chosen evil, repent, for here is a way out of evil and into the realm of love and grace.” I find the best way to pray those types of Psalms is to apply the aggressive words to my own weakness and failings, or to the devil and his plans. No need to show mercy to either of those!

Re: those who by nature are compelled to to want things done right:

I know where you’re coming from! And it’s actually not a bad thing to want things done right, but that desire must be subjected to wisdom in practice. If it’s not your responsibility, express your view to those responsible and then leave it to them. If it is your responsibility, then jolly well do something about it! If the person responsible isn’t doing anything and you feel the matter is important enough, then check with others you respect if they agree with you (you might be wrong). If they do agree, then do what you can to lobby or influence the course of events, but always within the boundaries of respect, courtesy and love, and never for personal or selfish reasons.

Does that answer the question?

GBU

Fr Ant

]]> By: ROMANI SERGYOS http://www.frantonios.org.au/2008/10/15/criticism-of-the-criticism-of-my-criticism-of-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-221 ROMANI SERGYOS Fri, 17 Oct 2008 23:18:14 +0000 http://www.stbishoy.org.au/modules/wordpress/2008/10/15/criticism-of-the-criticism-of-my-criticism-of-criticism/#comment-221 Most of the time we are the human beings rather than being content and grateful for what we have , we are focused on what,s wrong with something and our need to fix it !!!??we have to deal with imperfection on all aspects , the way the person think , talk , act ,communicate , behave , our way of life, personal aspects and you name it ...........!! i believe ,our act of focusing on imperfection pulls us from our main goal and being kind and gentle and at the end of the day we loose our inner peace ........i personallyi would like to be kind rather than right and keep my inner peace , what do you reckon pals ????at the end of the day we need to manage our affairs in the fear of God in this big jungle and as you know survival of the fittest here and the door is narrow there ....so the bottom line all of us makes mistakes and we learn from it , we commit sins and we learn from it and we try to manage our life and affairs in our area of responsibility doing our best , i believe , God will never ask us why we committed those sins and made those mistakes because he knows our weakness , but he will ask us why we did not confess and repent and learn from it , so make sure you do it all the time while we are still in this big jungle !!!so pals try to make peace with this worldly materialistic imperfection to the best of your ability !!!!!!it is just my humble experience .... Most of the time we are the human beings rather than being content and grateful for what we have , we are focused on what,s wrong with something and our need to fix it !!!??we have to deal with imperfection on all aspects , the way the person think , talk , act ,communicate , behave , our way of life, personal aspects and you name it ………..!! i believe ,our act of focusing on imperfection pulls us from our main goal and being kind and gentle and at the end of the day we loose our inner peace ……..i personallyi would like to be kind rather than right and keep my inner peace , what do you reckon pals ????at the end of the day we need to manage our affairs in the fear of God in this big jungle and as you know survival of the fittest here and the door is narrow there ….so the bottom line all of us makes mistakes and we learn from it , we commit sins and we learn from it and we try to manage our life and affairs in our area of responsibility doing our best , i believe , God will never ask us why we committed those sins and made those mistakes because he knows our weakness , but he will ask us why we did not confess and repent and learn from it , so make sure you do it all the time while we are still in this big jungle !!!so pals try to make peace with this worldly materialistic imperfection to the best of your ability !!!!!!it is just my humble experience ….

]]> By: sandy jay http://www.frantonios.org.au/2008/10/15/criticism-of-the-criticism-of-my-criticism-of-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-220 sandy jay Fri, 17 Oct 2008 09:47:26 +0000 http://www.stbishoy.org.au/modules/wordpress/2008/10/15/criticism-of-the-criticism-of-my-criticism-of-criticism/#comment-220 I found it funny that tonyk used a post on a talk about criticism to criticise Romani.. what's even funnier is that I wanted to say the same thing :). Abouna, some people have a personality that they think things should be done the right way. Of course, it's a subject of humilty to admit that your way might not be the right way, but what if you see something you think is wrong and listen with an open mind but are failed to be convinced that the way someone does something is right? and what if it's someone who for example has the care or your children or loved one or yourself in their hands? (I hope that makes sense... is it ok Tonyk? ;) any advise? I found it funny that tonyk used a post on a talk about criticism to criticise Romani.. what’s even funnier is that I wanted to say the same thing :) .

Abouna, some people have a personality that they think things should be done the right way. Of course, it’s a subject of humilty to admit that your way might not be the right way, but what if you see something you think is wrong and listen with an open mind but are failed to be convinced that the way someone does something is right? and what if it’s someone who for example has the care or your children or loved one or yourself in their hands? (I hope that makes sense… is it ok Tonyk? ;)

any advise?

]]> By: ROMANI SERGYOS http://www.frantonios.org.au/2008/10/15/criticism-of-the-criticism-of-my-criticism-of-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-219 ROMANI SERGYOS Thu, 16 Oct 2008 20:15:08 +0000 http://www.stbishoy.org.au/modules/wordpress/2008/10/15/criticism-of-the-criticism-of-my-criticism-of-criticism/#comment-219 You are right Tony ... also it is true that all the time" all things work together for good for those who love God ", mate i personally experienced that over the years when things used to go wrong with me in my work and in my personal life and then i found that suddenly those things work together for my benefit by the grace of God through his personal message to me and i believe a lot over there experienced it and will be experiencing this with the ups and downs in life ....anyhow i believe there is a specific message from God to the whole world regarding this financial disaster , just we have to wait and see ??!! as far as the sin and sinner issue ,i used to get the same feelings with those characters in the old testament and specially about David , actually David is a very close character to my heart for his great pure heart and great love to God , David used to do a lot of mistakes like the other prophets but God used to punish him on the spot, i believe David used to go further than hating his enemies and that in killing them !!!!! just we will wait to get some advice from Abouna ??!!! You are right Tony … also it is true that all the time” all things work together for good for those who love God “, mate i personally experienced that over the years when things used to go wrong with me in my work and in my personal life and then i found that suddenly those things work together for my benefit by the grace of God through his personal message to me and i believe a lot over there experienced it and will be experiencing this with the ups and downs in life ….anyhow i believe there is a specific message from God to the whole world regarding this financial disaster , just we have to wait and see ??!! as far as the sin and sinner issue ,i used to get the same feelings with those characters in the old testament and specially about David , actually David is a very close character to my heart for his great pure heart and great love to God , David used to do a lot of mistakes like the other prophets but God used to punish him on the spot, i believe David used to go further than hating his enemies and that in killing them !!!!! just we will wait to get some advice from Abouna ??!!!

]]> By: Tonyk http://www.frantonios.org.au/2008/10/15/criticism-of-the-criticism-of-my-criticism-of-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-218 Tonyk Thu, 16 Oct 2008 14:12:19 +0000 http://www.stbishoy.org.au/modules/wordpress/2008/10/15/criticism-of-the-criticism-of-my-criticism-of-criticism/#comment-218 Just a short criticism to Romani :P, it would be easier to understand and read your otherwise enlightening post if you used the conventions of English :) I like your example of Mother Teresa- I remember seeing a movie about her- quite inspiring. With the financial crisis, I suspect that it is one of those things that happen from time to time; and the leadership of the current leaders may or may not have triggered its eruption, or the past leaders have delayed it until now. I don't know- not good in Economics. What I do know is that "all things work together for good to those who love Him". Well, if I don't believe that- I hope I will soon do, by the grace of God. Thanks Abouna; just wondering though- in the Psalms, David really hates God's enemies (that's my impression)...does he really just hate their sin? Just a short criticism to Romani :P , it would be easier to understand and read your otherwise enlightening post if you used the conventions of English :)

I like your example of Mother Teresa- I remember seeing a movie about her- quite inspiring. With the financial crisis, I suspect that it is one of those things that happen from time to time; and the leadership of the current leaders may or may not have triggered its eruption, or the past leaders have delayed it until now. I don’t know- not good in Economics. What I do know is that “all things work together for good to those who love Him”. Well, if I don’t believe that- I hope I will soon do, by the grace of God.

Thanks Abouna; just wondering though- in the Psalms, David really hates God’s enemies (that’s my impression)…does he really just hate their sin?

]]> By: ROMANI SERGYOS http://www.frantonios.org.au/2008/10/15/criticism-of-the-criticism-of-my-criticism-of-criticism/comment-page-1/#comment-217 ROMANI SERGYOS Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:29:21 +0000 http://www.stbishoy.org.au/modules/wordpress/2008/10/15/criticism-of-the-criticism-of-my-criticism-of-criticism/#comment-217 Everyday we learn something , i like that comprehensive strategy of using discretion supported by humility and compassion, it forms a great common ground strategy .... it is a practical and great strategy in our daily life ....also it is important to realize the application in practice of those life experience strategies needs personal practical common sense skills as it comes in different situations and scenarios to handle ....we agreed that by our Discretion to hit" hate " the sin and not the sinner, do not go the further step of judgment and thus we need to support it as father Antonios said with a bit of humility and compassion implementation ...i believe it is a great way because Compassion will put you on the shoes of others , you will feel their feelings , their frustration , their pain ....the question now how you develop your COMPASSION ??it is very easy and you can develop it with practice ..it involves simply two things : intention and action , intention simply you open your heart to others and action is simply too ,what you do about it ...remember mother Teresa said ," we can not do great things in this world but we can do small things with great love " you can comfort , say a good word , smile , hug , etc ...anyhow , the other component HUMILITY also we can experience this practically all the time and must be part of our attitude as well and it is simple to develop and experience as well but remember humility and inner peace go hand on hand all the time ..most people love a person who does not need to BRAG , a person who shares from his or her heart and not from his or her EGO ...so the way to develop genuine humility is to practice and by the way you get an immediate feed back of calm and inner easy feelings ...so the next time you have an opportunity of BRAG resist the temptation and you will get there ....i hope we shared a bit of nice practical thoughts , God bless ....just i wonder now with this thought came to me about one of the events happening around , which way to go and what the world will do about this world financial disaster , to hit the sin only or the sinners or both the corruption" sin " and the FAT CATS " sinners "???!!!sorry i did not mean to confuse you ...anyhow as father Antonios , every one has got a responsibility in its own area ,i do not want to overstep on the toes of the others ..may God bring peace and stability to the whole world , amen .... Everyday we learn something , i like that comprehensive strategy of using discretion supported by humility and compassion, it forms a great common ground strategy …. it is a practical and great strategy in our daily life ….also it is important to realize the application in practice of those life experience strategies needs personal practical common sense skills as it comes in different situations and scenarios to handle ….we agreed that by our Discretion to hit” hate ” the sin and not the sinner, do not go the further step of judgment and thus we need to support it as father Antonios said with a bit of humility and compassion implementation …i believe it is a great way because Compassion will put you on the shoes of others , you will feel their feelings , their frustration , their pain ….the question now how you develop your COMPASSION ??it is very easy and you can develop it with practice ..it involves simply two things : intention and action , intention simply you open your heart to others and action is simply too ,what you do about it …remember mother Teresa said ,” we can not do great things in this world but we can do small things with great love ” you can comfort , say a good word , smile , hug , etc …anyhow , the other component HUMILITY also we can experience this practically all the time and must be part of our attitude as well and it is simple to develop and experience as well but remember humility and inner peace go hand on hand all the time ..most people love a person who does not need to BRAG , a person who shares from his or her heart and not from his or her EGO …so the way to develop genuine humility is to practice and by the way you get an immediate feed back of calm and inner easy feelings …so the next time you have an opportunity of BRAG resist the temptation and you will get there ….i hope we shared a bit of nice practical thoughts , God bless ….just i wonder now with this thought came to me about one of the events happening around , which way to go and what the world will do about this world financial disaster , to hit the sin only or the sinners or both the corruption” sin ” and the FAT CATS ” sinners “???!!!sorry i did not mean to confuse you …anyhow as father Antonios , every one has got a responsibility in its own area ,i do not want to overstep on the toes of the others ..may God bring peace and stability to the whole world , amen ….

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